From 8689734291654734358 X-Google-Thread: f78e5,174aa7b34b06a51 X-Google-Attributes: gidf78e5,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.speakeasy.net!news.speakeasy.net.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:40:02 -0600 Return-Path: X-Authentication-Warning: mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU: fjh set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov) Delivered-To: std-c++@ucar.edu From: "Momchil Velikov" Newsgroups: comp.std.c++ Subject: Re: Is this really unspecified behavior? Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <1134551229.842582.80670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> References: <1132759176.368850.264850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1132933832.802917.153350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1133551647.532929.325730@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <1133583412.951239.208510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1133910546.716987.80030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <0l5ep1ppfhdj5p1pcu7e4na4ub0vjajlq3@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com User-Agent: G2/0.2 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050906 Firefox/1.0.6 (Debian package 1.0.6-4),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com; posting-host=84.22.10.178; posting-account=Fh11Bw0AAAB0-wFbEALShd0KZmegcXjp X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ucar.edu X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU Approved: Fergus Henderson , moderator of comp.std.c++ X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.mu.OZ.AU Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:31:40 CST Lines: 48 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.182.171.162 X-Trace: sv3-XAQ9ZLReHLkaLXf0ULDnl1Zp6AZeIBcNMf+F3QXto5P3hE4rznDJuaQTqOe1srWoD5/vIUsi356LSOl!jmgxeNNUU6N58MTdtuwjz2YPB9UMcdUFt3sArFuAOu7O8yhxj0PHzyfReietyg0hgxde0n/Vlc98!ePLRX9R0/y3Q6whDWTDR2sJB7UyRK9HXv5v7OYDv/Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@speakeasy.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@speakeasy.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.std.c++:2764 "Andrei Alexandrescu See Website For Email wrote: > Momchil Velikov wrote: > > "Andrei Alexandrescu See Website For Email wrote: > >>Momchil Velikov wrote: > >>>>It's a pity that the intended semantics can't be easily expressed as a > >>>>source-to-source transformation. (The problem is that rvalue and lvalue > >>>>expressions would lead to different types of temporaries.) > >>> > >>>Then maybe *this* is the problem to solve. Is it related to the > >>>"forwarding problem" > >>>http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2002/n1385.htm ? > >> > >>That's being addressed by the rvalue proposal. Solving it won't take > >>care of defining order of evaluation of function arguments. > > > > Sorry, I didn't understand. Do you mean that solving this > > issue won't allow evaluation order defining source-to-source > > transformation ? > > No. > > A source-to-source transformation would have made it easier for me to > define order of evaluation by translating C++ to equivalent C++. That > would have made writing my post easier, but it's not essential for > making steps towards defining the order of evaluation. I'm under the impression we put different meaning in "defining the order of evaluation". While I mean a source-to-source transformation, which a programmer employs whenever (s)he want to impose a concrete order of evaluation, you seem to use it to refer to a change in the C++ language specification. To restate the question, will the rvalue proposal [1] enable a programmer to perform source-to-source transformations whenever (s)he wants to specify a concrete evaluation order of subexpressions and function arguments ? ~velco [1] I guess by "rvalue proposal" you mean this http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2004/n1690.html --- [ comp.std.c++ is moderated. To submit articles, try just posting with ] [ your news-reader. If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu ] [ --- Please see the FAQ before posting. --- ] [ FAQ: http://www.jamesd.demon.co.uk/csc/faq.html ]